XT Forester parts

[outasight]

Peter & Co.,

Went to fit the BSF34 front swaybar to my XT Forester tonight and :mad: it won't fit!
If the picture inserts/attaches correctly, you will see the BSR34 has markedly more "shape/bends" through the mid section - these actually foul the crossmember which it mounts in front of.
Will be calling you guys tommorrow....

p.s. The rear BSR35Z is fantastic!

[outasight]

For anyone who's interested, here's the rear BSR35Z adjustable vs the oem. Took max. 30 mins. to install (on the ground).
Not like the front - what a mongrel that is!

Les.

[outasight]

This is the area where the BSR34 is having trouble with those exagerated bends fouling the crossmembers.

[Jim]

Hi Peter,

I can see the difference and it looks something like the difference between turbo and n/a Subaru front bars. Is the XT Forrester turbo charged?

We'll sort this out for you quickly.

Cheers
Jim

Whiteline

[outasight]

Jim,

"Peter & Co." is a reference to "Peter" at Whiteline who responded to my questions on the old Yahoo Forum.

Yes Jim, it is & I'm a bit suprised at you asking this (being in the industry you are)!
I spoke to Mike at Whiteline today & FWIW he informs me you guys have had a similar complaint from OS.
Quickly? That would be - say 2 days delivered to my door!
This would save me having to stuff round any further with that pig of an install on this front bar - as it sits, your BSF34 is still hanging in the bushings right now awaiting........

My details are with Mike.......

Les.
Reasonable - Yes.
Not happy - you betcha!

[Jim]

Hi Les,

Have sent you a direct message about the progress on this issue.

Jim

Whiteline

[outasight]

Hi all,
Sorry about this long post/report.

Whiteline collected my Forester XT Turbo oem front sway bar last Friday, and were able to match it successfuly to a BSF33 front bar which is now on the car successfuly!

The BSR35Z(21-23mm adjustable - found it in the webstore listing!) set to the middle position was a great improvement, and would be enough on it's own for many(so that would be a BSR35X - 22mm). I always felt that this XT is a more balanced car than the Forester GT was, so then I fitted the front, as I could feel the front and rear of the car wanting to do two different things with only the BSR35Z on.(Again - many may not notice this).
Now with both I have a car which is throttle/power/speed responsive mid corners/bends as to whether it will display understeer(never much anyway now at nearly silly speeds)and oversteer(so far only on dirt where both rears can break traction - but loads of fun!). It can spins one or both rears now depending on severity of turn on take-off (& weight of right foot!).
The cornering ability(& therefore speed) is now incredible for a car of this segment & given it's ride height & still retains it's ride comfort & dirt performance.
Oh yeah, and the Geolandars have stopped screaming until really pushed now!
Can't wait to see how things go in the wet now.

Les.

[outasight]

A further follow-up is that I have moved the rear bar to the stiffest(~23mm) position & holly s*!t it is like on rails now!
Makes those Geo's feel like, well...not Geo's anyway!

The car rides a bit stiffer for sure, but not at all uncomfortable and soaks up all bumps & speed humps very well indeed.
It's speed & precise line through things like roundabouts now is incredible.

So I think that my recommendation would be for the small amount extra get an adjustable BSR35Z rear and have options of 21 or 22 with oem front or 23 with 22mm BSF33 front bar!

Go to the WebStore & check them out - for the money just do it!

Les.:D

[Jim]

Hi Les,

Great to see its worked out.

Just highlights an interesting point about bigger bars and long travel suspension. In our experience its a magic combination with standard suspension on more traditional "off-road" 4WD's vs AWD's due to the high centre of gravity

Needless to say the difference would not be quite as spectacular if the car was already lowered and riding on heavier springs but that would be too much of a compromise anyway ;)

Thanks again Les, enjoy.

Cheers
Jim

Whiteline

[peterca]

Les

Have you seen any need to install heavy duty mounts etc?

pc

[outasight]

Peter,

The front one(if you get it) is no issue with mounts, but the bushes still need "work" to keep them quiet until Whiteline get the "newer" ones in stock - they need at least 2mm taken off the flat mounting surface side to stop the huge pre-load crush they get when done up. I still haven't done this and the noise is damn horrible!
The rear mounts(tall in the Forester) haven't shown any signs of trouble YET in myne and were never a problem in 18 months with my previous GT(with HD links too).
The way I see it, IF they crack/break, THEN I will replace them!
They are weakest around the bolt holes, where they don't have much of a "footprint" to remain stable.
I have had the nuts come loose on the links at both front and rear on one end of the bar each though.
Did them up as tight as I dared after discovering that!

Personally I would really recommend as above the rear adjustable first, and then the front if you think it's needed later.

Les.

[Jim]

Hi everyone,

Just a side point on the rear heavy duty mounts..

These were originally developed for 2 reasons, firstly because they are prone to fracturing aournd the mounting base when using heavy swaybars in competition or track work.

The other reason stems from the first. If they break, thats because there is so much flex at the base under load as the whole bar tends to laterally rock on these mounts. So, in the same way that a less compliant link will increase effective swaybar performance, so too will heavier mounts.

Cheers
Jim

Whiteline

[outasight]

Hi all,
Couple more updates!
I may do the mounts soon actually due to the attached picture showing how close the mount edge comes to the bar itself!
This is due to the way in which the factory provided strength, rolling the edges TOWARDS the bar! DAMN.:mad:
Also I have linished 2-3mm off the front bushes & all is silent bliss:D
Now the really good news - I also put the caster kit in last night & I am stoked:D :D :D .
It turns in like never before, is even more responsive mid-corner & needs even more provoking to get those Yoki 900's to squeal!:eek: The interesting thing is it doesn't front wheel spin as much on take off out of corners either.
Will put rear camber bolts in today & get alignment done then.

Les.

[outasight]

Here's the other side.

[outasight]

Rear camber bolts are in & alignment done today.
Man the factory can do up a bolt(actually - every bolt) tight!!!

Camber - Front = 1.5 deg . Rear = 1.0 deg
Toe - Front = 0mm . Rear = 1.0mm toe out per side
Front Caster (KCA375) set to max.

Can't even imagine what it would be like with really good tyres!
This truly is a good package right now. The only further thing I might try is strut braces - can you guys quantify the improvement and whether ONLY a front is any more beneficial than ONLY a rear?(obviously both would be best - but you know - $$$!!!)

The front swaybar bushes have started getting noisey already again(only when cold so far) - any news on the new type Jim or Wojtek? I'm thinking that because you went to powder coating, maybe that's got something to do with it? They really do need the "knurled" inside - it's just too easy for them to bind to the surface.

Les.

[Brett Middleton]

re the rear mounts.

we have already seen several failures of the rear OEM link mounts on the OEM control arm.
This is by no way caused by the replacement of the bar with a heavier one, but as a heads up, anybody planning some fun, with this model, we will be recomending:
new rear arm kit, (4 pieces) or at least the rear arms (2 pieces)
new links
new HD sway bar mounts, (note the Forester ones are longer than Impreza)

The XT we did this to last week has reported back alrady with prositive results.

BTW if you break a arm mount, dont bother welding it (like we did) it just keps breaking....

:(

[Peter]

Thanks for the Feed Back Brett,

For the benefit of readers following this thread I thought I might include a bit of info on the components being discussed here:

Info on the rear lower control arms Brett is referring to can be found here:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/072_kta.pdf

The new heavy duty rear swaybar mounts for the Subaru Impreza (all) and Liberty/Legacy up to '99 is Part # KBR20-(size).

The new heavy duty rear swaybar mounts for the Forrester are KBR30-(size)

A link to the brochure on these mounts can be found here:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/079_kbr20.pdf

Regards

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[peterca]

Well last Thursday I received the front and rear sway bars. Put the back one on in 20 minutes - just unbolt and replace.

Took it for a drive.... clunk, groan but immediate improvement and the wife started complaining.

Put the front one on on yesterday, 29 Feb. A little bit more fiddly says I. Well 2 hours later it was all back together. I reckon in hindsight that if I had trimmed about 3mm off the bolts for the mounts, it would have been a much quicker job.

Anyway, again, double the clunking and noise now and the wife is complaining even more.

Never mind the handling improvement.

Whiteline, can you provide a fix, the kit shouldn't be distributed with this result, it smacks of at least hasty development.

pc

[Peter]

G'day there Peter C,

That's not good news Peter. My first reaction is that you may not have applied adequate lubrication to the urethane bushes prior to assembly. Just in case this is the problem, unlike rubber bushes, it is vital that all surfaces of the urethane bushes that move/rotate on metal surfaces are well lubricated.

A lack of lubrication may explain the groan but the clunk - both front and rear - is somewhat more difficult to explain.

Peter, you have not indicated the model details of your car or the actual bars you have fitted.

I will contact you off list to establish these details and also your order number so that we can "get to the bottom" of the problem.

Regards

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[peterca]

The bars used were the ones recommended by Peter Atkinson, being
Front: BSF33Z Blade adjustable 20-24mm
Rear: BSR35X 22mm fixed rate bar.

The blocks were well lubricated and for good measure I put a bit on the outside of the front to get them into the mounts.

All blocks were sliding easily.

The bars work really well, its just the noise.

[outasight]

peterca & Peter Atkinson,

I certainly have experience here now & have conversed with Wojtek on this noisey bushes issue.
peterca, Wojtek(pronounced "Voytek")is the head R&D guy at Whiteline. He advised the removal of "approx"2mm or so from the flat suface of the "D" shaped front mount bushes to stop them being crushed/squeezed too tight on the bar - squeezing all the grease out & simply gripping the bar too tight.

Peter A. - I am quite confident that the "clunking" noise peterca describes is actually the result of the binding bushes letting go under twisting torsion when the bar is trying to rotate freely. It's a bit like undoing an extrememly tight bolt - it lets go with a "snap" - & this is what the bushes do all the time with no lube left & a tight crush.

I am also quite confident that a knurled inside together with a better ouside dimension(like my 2mm linished off ones) would mostly fix this as it did in the GT rear I had before.

This noisey front Impreza style swaybar bushings is nothing new at all. There is a quite lengthy thread on the old forum about this & there was no final definitive fix.

In my last post I reported the noise back when cold only(overnight). Even that seems to be dissapating again now, perhaps as they "wear in" - but I would still prefer the internally "knurled" bushes when in stock.

I am assuming peterca has an XT in the following....
I am puzzled as to why a 20-24mm front bar was recommended with "only" a 22mm FIXED rear? The reason why I'm puzzled is that the oem front was a 21mm already!!! The main problem with almost all Subarus - especially Foresters is understeer(together with the big body roll). With a 22mm rear, you really only have 20 or 22mm postions useful on the front bar, and as it was already a 21mm oem - I wonder about the virtues of the combination?

As it is with my setup now - i gained 1mm front and the rear is only 1mm heavier again than that - I would have prefered 2mm difference & wonder myself whether I should have stuck with oem front.

Finally peterca, if you had removed the black flat tubular subframe-looking bits blocking access to those bush mounts - it is dead easy to get at it all! There is about 8 various bolts for each member(including one under the small plastic frame covers clipped on). Thanks again to Wojtek for pointing that one out!
You probably thought like me that it was a whole sub-frame, but it's just a crash reinfocement thing on each side!

We will get them quiet peterca!

Les.;)

[peterca]

I looked at those frames and you are right, they looked like they held all together.

Oh well, live and learn.

I relubricated the back mounts and they are quieter, but can still be heard and heaps of grease gets squeezed out when tightened. I wll have a go at the front blocks tonight and see if I can get them to retain the grease. Hopefully with less movement after inserting the grease will cause them to retain a bit more.

I drove the car with only the rear sway bar installed and there was a great improvement and with the front installed, turn in and tyre noise (and handling) was again improved.

[Peter]

G'day Les and PeterCa,

The feed back we are receiving on this topic is great. Thank you.

A decision was made this afternoon to fully re-address and re-tool the swaybar mounting bushes for the Forester XT.

Les, your explanation of the noise from the front of PeterCa's car certainly makes sense.

If you are aware of any other owners who are experiencing problems with the XT bushes could you request them to let us know please.

In response to Les's query on the sizes of bars, I have listed our range of swaybars for the XT Forester below:

Front:
BSF33 - 22mm fixed rate
BSF33X - 24mm fixed rate
BSF33Z - 22mm Blade adj bar.

Rear:
BSR35 - 20mm fixed rate bar, or
BSR35X - 22mm fixed rate bar

Use of the blade adjustable front bar permits adjustment (tuning) of the front to rear bias of the chassis to meet your individual driving style/preference and to suit your tyres etc.

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[peterca]

Its good to see that these problems are being taken on board.

One thing I did notice was that the original front sway bar on the XT had a kink in the middle. I would assume that it was there for a purpose, but I can't see what it was trying to avoid.

Is it possible to really speed up the installation and avoid the need for the removal of other support on the front of the XT by have the mounting bushes actually split in half. While I don't know what effect this would have on the performance or life of the bush, it would make it easier to install.

[Peter]

Hi PeterCa,

Thanks - your points are noted.

My initial thoughts are that producing the saddle bushes in two halves may affect alignment and rigidity of the bush under load. I would have thought having "more bits" to hold together during assembly may make it more difficult to assemble :) I'll pass your thoughts to Wojtek.

A follow on from Les's question yesterday concerning the merits or otherwise of the Blade adjustable front bar, is the adjustable range of BSF33Z. This bar can be adjusted to equate to the equivalent of a 20 to 24mm diameter bar. Les?s comments relating to the size of the OEM bar being 21mm are valid and are applicable to the sizing of our bladed front bar.

Regards

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[outasight]

Peter,

As I was the first to try out bars in an XT model Forester, I don't know of others (yet!), but of course will be listening out!

Peter A. - What happened to the BSR35Z blade adjustable rear bar? This gave you the extra rear diameter to bias against the increased understeer that the 1mm increased BSF33 front will put in. A BSF33X or Z will only be worse when the rear cant be any more than the 22mm rear you have listed.

My rear bushes are quiet still & were from day1, and the fronts still only "creak & groan" when the car has been motionless for hours(worse when cold overnight), then they are "mostly" quiet after that.

On the grease side of things - here's my newest idea!
Make the bushes with a shallow "groove or channel" around the internal surface in the centre of the bushes width.
Drill a hole(say 3mm) in the saddle towards one of the 90deg bends at the mount point surface BEFORE assembly.
Then drill a 1 or 2mm hole through the bush to match the saddle hole position(this could maybe be done after assembly).
You could the use a seringe/needle etc. to "inject" grease at will!!!

What do you think guys?

Les.:confused:

[peterca]

In my brainstorming I thought of that, but what with the pressure on the inside, you would need something very powerful to push in the lubricant all the way down and then around.

I reckon one of the answers is to slightly reduce the pressure of the grip around the bar and/or have a lip on the outside edge to make it more difficult for the lubricant to escape.

Another and undoubtedly more expensive idea is to have a proper bearing system of some sort - with a grease nipple!! Now that is going back a bit.

Or a different type of poly/rubber which self lubricates

[peterca]

You are right, those subframes are easy to remove and doing so makes swapping the front sway bar a breeze.

[Peter]

G'day Peter Ca & Les,

Again thank you for the feed back and the ideas. Be assured our approach to the problem will be based on "cause and effect" and a satisfactory solution to these noisy bars will hopefully not be too far off.

We overlooked a previous point raised by Peter Ca relating to the additional dip in the OEM bar that is not evident in the Whiteline bar. We believe this additional dip may be to allow clearance on the exhaust of an NA (non turbo) vehicle. It will not therefore affect either of your vehicles.

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[peterca]

Yep, I couldn't see where it would touch anything.

[outasight]

Yipee!!!

Bushes all quiet now for weeks in all weather and at all times!

Les.

[Wojtek]

that's great news Les,
let's hope it stays that way.

Wojtek.

[peterca]

Something I have been meaning to post for a while.

When installing the front sway bar, use a 5mm allen key in the bolt on the link - its a hollow bolt. Sure makes installation easier.

[Wojtek]

Hi,
thanks for the pointer really appreciate it, but that's the only correct way of tightening the links.

Wojtek.

[xt _ian]

Hi
this thread has been fantastic after reading all I have gone with Les and have bought a bsr35z I will put on the middle setting to start I am guessing the holes closest to the bar is for a firmer setting. Goingto a adjustble front bar will be my next misson has the bush noise problem be sorted out now and have all kit being shipped out with them?

[outasight]

Hi Ian,
I reckon with the rear only, you'd be pretty happy. The fronts offered are either only 1mm heavier, or they overtake the rear you put on(in diameter). To me anyway, that is a no no in a Subaru. Those adjustable rods for the rear with the different links that MRT show look great - if I had the spare money, I'd go that way, as the rear could be set up much better than the eccentric bolts I used(which are ok - but limited).
I wonder if those bits are Whiteline supplied to MRT also - well Whiteline guys???
On the noise thing - the rear has just begun groaning again, but it's easy to lube. The front has been good since I "machined" the supplied bushes to stop the excessive crush in the stirrups. May need lubing too soon though - reckon I heard it last w/end whilst getting a workout in the Vic State Forests!!!
Hey - while you're over here - how's that AccessPort thing going?

Les.

[xt _ian]

Hi Les,
ok thx about the info and your recommendations really stoked about the rear bar Really is a great improvment have you set your bar on the holes closest to the bar? Do you think we need to upgrade the mountings and rods for the ones whitline have they sure look nice!
About the access port they were having problems with them locking up half way through on certain serial numbers they seem to have fixed that bug while speaking to Justin on the phone he handballed me to troy who didnt return my emails I guess us Aussies are down the list for customer service so if I want to buy one now will wait till xmas when another mate is going to the U.S

[outasight]

The way I figure the links thing is - IF, & only then, WHEN they break - then I'll get the other bits - over 6 months so far, rear of wagon always loaded, and I do corner/drive hard + many fun expeditions in the bush(eg. see www.offroadsubarus.com), & no probs yet! Spend money elsewhere I guess, can always be added later. Do get the front castor kit installed though, or some adjustable strut tops if you're game!!! A front brace might be my next suspension thing I reckon.
Yes - we Ozzies ARE down the Cobb list - they have enough trouble keeping up with their own demand(must be nice)!
I'm with you on that US thing - I have work connections over there - I was there from March to May myself!

Les.

[xt _ian]

Les
there some pretty cool places you go to!
noticed your in all the message boards I go to so I guess I see you
round

Ian

[Wojtek]

Hi,

Les, I'm not sure what adjustable links you are refering to. Is it these;
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/instructs/239_kta107.pdf

Wojtek.

[outasight]

Looks a lot like them Wojtek. I said "adj. rods" - not links.
I had a look back up this thread & couldn't open the link Peter had given us about what Brett was talking about, but then found the relevant pics over at MRT's FTP site...have a look....

ftp://ftp.mrtrally.com.au/product-data/images/MRT-Forester-XT-2003-Rear-suspention-upgrade-kit-1.jpg

and....

ftp://ftp.mrtrally.com.au/product-data/images/MRT-Forester-XT-2003-Rear-suspention-upgrade-kit-2.jpg

Looks the same, but interesting your pdf brochure says "for offroad use only"!!!;)

Les.

[Peter]

G'day Les,

Thanks for the feedback.

I think your question about strut tower braces relates to the question: "When is too much chassis stiffening enough" ?? The answer is never ;)

I'm going to start a debate probably and suggest the first preference would be a front strut tower brace as the first option. You will notice the effect of this item as it will assist in holding front end alignment when the chassis is dynamically loaded. After all, hopefully the front goes into the corner first ;) - you can follow the front with the rear brace.

In respect to the front swaybar bushes - these have been modified. Please contact me off list using the email address below. Could you include your original order number please.

Again thanks for the positive feedback Les.

Cheers

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[outasight]

(trimmed for clarity & size)Originally posted by outasight
............ A front brace might be my next suspension thing I reckon............
Les.
Just what I said Peter! It never was a question! Guys, please read these posts carefully when replying.
I will find my original order(it was through Meltow in Melb.), and you guys had to send me the correct bar directly(after some internal searching) if anyone remembers!

Les.

[Peter]

G'day Les,

I have replied to you off list.

Regards

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[xt _ian]

hi all
Just placed the rear bar on the firmest setting and like Les says S@!#. what a really nice ride and corners great. Luckily dont have a problem with any noisey sounds coming from the bar from day 1 . I should be really happy but somehow hungry for more so I wanted to run by what I was thinking for the front a bsf33x 24mm or will a bsf33xz 24mm adjustable fit the forester.
any input appreciated

Ian

[outasight]

Spend some money on alignment bits & get the alignment done as per Peter's recommended settings + front brace first:D :D :D
Front bar after all that won't alter anything(if you still think it's needed!)
As I said, it's hard to believe it's still on Yoki 900's after 20,000km's!:eek:

Les.

[Wojtek]

Hi Ian,
My suggestions in order of importance are;
rear sway bar (adjustable), heavy duty rear sway bar chassis bracket kit, front sway bar, front and rear sway bar links (depends on your model), rear camber kit, springs and shocks (together), steering rack mount bush kit, rear strut brace and front strut brace.
Not sure on which model you have, but the correct part numbers are listed in the respective product catalogues (not web store), or you are welcome to contact sales for more information.

Wojtek.

[xt _ian]

guys
thx for the input. Les did read the part in the thread that the front and back want to do two different things thats why I thought thats why you put the front sway bar on.:cool:
Sure glad I put the BSR35z on cause a straight 22mm bar would not have done what it does now.
I drive around for a few more days and feel what actually happens when pushed around corners ( I really have to push hard to get any tire protesting)

Ian

[outasight]

I guess I put in that comment because it's the first time I can say I actually felt the two ends of a car that I was driving so clearly operating independantly , and in hindsight it most likely was simply body twist!
Anyway, it's interesting the order of importance in which Wojtek puts things, and it seems Peter may well have started a debate!
Also Wojtek, NO front castor kit mentioned in your list???

Les.

[Wojtek]

Hi,
Les, NO I don't want to start a debate!
But yes, I have missed the caster kit, my apologies. I would suggest fitting this at the same time as the rear camber kit.

Wojtek.

[peterca]

Installed the front swaybar on the XT 2 weeks ago, with the new bushes which have a knurled bore.

NO NOISE!! and the handling is even better than with just the rear hd swaybar.

Even the wife notices the difference and she is a quiet driver.

Around town at (sort of) sensible speeds. the car has now lost the front washout that is a feature of the standard machine

On the open road and much faster corners, it is an ultimate understeerer still, but the roadholding is very good (considering I am still on the G900's).

Will experiment with different tyre pressures now and see what happens

[Peter]

G'day Peter ca,

Great to hear that your noise problem is now resolved :)

With respect to the understeer problem, I suggest that you try bringing the rear bar up a notch.

Regards

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[outasight]

hi peterca,

the rear camber bolts and front caster bushes with a wheel alignment made a difference as well. Will be doing at least the front strut brace too some time soon.
Basically, the car as it is now already outstrips the lateral grip of the tyres! Having said that - anyone in an unmodified FXT is AMAZED at the sum of the differences as it is! That includes 2 Subaru salesman - 1 who owns/drives a WRX & is in the Vic WRX Club.
Bottom line is....some months on now & I am still very happy with the setup I have now for this type of car.

Les.:D

[outasight]

OK Front strut brace is ON - was sooner rather than later:D
5 mniute job to fit & what can I say - OMG:D :D :D
At first I wasn't sure that I was feeling much difference, I thought that maybe the front end stayed physically "flatter", and I'm still not sure if that's a fact or not, but it does look and feel like it:confused:
But the main thing is - it takes insane cornering speeds to make the Geo 900's squeal again.Originally this was the same story with the other things already done too, but I think you get used to them and are cornering hard enough at higher speeds than you ever did, to still get only occasional squeal.
I drove round heaps of backstreet corners with the window down tonight and you can hear the tyres NOT straining for grip either.

Front strut brace = money well spent!

Les.:D

[xt _ian]

les
The front strut back makes a difference :cool:
looks like I have to get one now do u know the part number.

P.S Booked in for ecu tek at the end of the month . still tossing up on getting a exaust as well so u think that the piping needs to be stainless lot cheaper for mild steel?

[Wojtek]

Hi,

Les, that's fantastic about the front strut brace.

Wojtek.

[outasight]

pm'ed you ian - did you get the info?
Les.:D

[naca-yoda]

Okay, I read all the posts - all 4 pages of them. And I'm now excited about the possible changes I can make... only one problem, I own a 99 (2000) Outback... not a Forester.

Secretly I have my budget set on a rear bar and a front strut-brace. But being a different car, I suppose none of the details I've read really apply :(

If any of you guys at Whiteline can do a conversion of all this info (with part numbers and prices) for an Outback - I'd be wrapped :)

Cheers,
Anthony

[outasight]

Anthony,

You really should start a "New Thread/Topic" for the Outback, but if you use the following links, you can download the full catalogues to look stuff up yourself too!
Note that the Outback is based on a Liberty platform, whereas the Forester is on the Impreza platform.

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/catalogues/WLA02h_full.pdf
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/catalogues/WSB06h_full.pdf

Les.

[Wojtek]

Hi Anthony,

exactly as Les said.... this topic is already getting rather long.
Also, please use this forum for technical discussion about suspension. If you need part numbers and prices, the best thing is to contact sales by phone or email.

Wojtek.

[xt _ian]

Les,
sorry mate didnt get any info

regards

[peterca]

Les

Now you have done it.

Here I was bemoaning the fact that I can't use the power of the XT (and remain legal) any more because I didn't have to slow down for the corners and now you say it can get better!

I have settled on 38 front and 36 rear for the pressures with the G900s. Even this doesn't stop the tyres squirming (well that's what it feels like) under acceleration and you can't go over 40 on these tyres.

[outasight]

OK PeterCa - now a qualifier on this;)
Like all these things - they allow a higher limit of adhesion each time something is added.
Don't worry - the Yoki 900's are squealing their heads off again, but I am going round corners way quicker:D
Also - the tyres were rotated(Fronts to rear, same sides)a couple of weeks ago(25,000km), and the fronts had no side blocks left to speak of.....:rolleyes:
So I reckon that(the new side tread blocks)is adding to the squeal again for sure. Bottom line is they used to squeal at 10km/h - everyone knows that - now if they are squealing, the car is loosing grip at both ends and it's going fast for a Forester in a corner!;)
Les.

[vagmag]

Dear Sirs,

I have a Forester 05 2.5 turbo 10/2004
i am interesteed in the following goods, from your company, and i would like from you the confirmation, that these are the right codes mathing for my car, so i can proceed with the order.

BSF33Z front adjustable sway bar
BSR35Z rear adjustable sway bar
KLC31 endlinks includes front and rear
KBR30-(size) heavy duty rear sway bar mounting bracket
KSB590Q strut tower bar Subaru Liberty Forester wagon front and rear (i will use it with oem struts)



thank you for your help

waiting your confirmation the soonest possible with also prices written next to the items

Magnisalis Vagelis

Thessaloniki

Greece

[Wojtek]

Hi George,

Thank you for your inquiry, however we try to maintain technical content on this forum. Could you please send an email either to sales (sales@whiteline.com.au) or myself and we will reply with answers on part numbers and prices.

Regards,
Wojtek.

[outasight]

Hey guys, just an update...
Finally got round to putting the "new"(knurled inside) front bushes sent to me by Whiteline back in July!
The ones in there were bone dry, as were the backs!
Also, over time, the large washers on the rear of the lower arm castor kit bushes had rotated & were intermittently touching the vehicle body, making an annoying "knocking" noise - loosten nut, rotate washer, do up - fixed too!
All is quiet again. :D
Les.:)

[Wojtek]

Hi Les,

It's good to hear that the new bushes are working just fine.
The large washers you are refering to are concentric, so I can't understand how rotating them would cause them to touch the chassis, but it it's good that it's fixed your knocking noise anyway.

Wojtek.

[outasight]

Wojtek,
Have a read of your own KCA375 fitting pdf and you will see it even mentions the "grinding" of these washers in point 8.:eek:
Les.:cool:

[Wojtek]

OK Les,

Fitting the KCA375 caster bushes for maximum positive caster increase, moves the rear OE washer closer to the chassis. As this is a concentric washer, rotating it does not alter the clearance between it and the chassis. If the caster off-set has resulted in the washer fouling on the chassis, we suggest to grind away some of the washer at the point of contact.

Wojtek.

[outasight]

Sorry, but maybe I should have mentioned in the first post that I had already "ground" off one side of the washer to clear the bodywork when these bushes were originally fitted. I would have thought that anyone who is fitting these will be after the most positive setting they can get, and therefore WILL HAVE TO do that(grind the washer). Anyway, it's that "flat" on the washer that has rotated over time to the point of touching.
I didn't really know what the word "concentric" meant, and therefore what you may have meant Wojtek!:o That's a big word for a washer with a hole IN THE MIDDLE:D

Les.
p.s. There is so much feedback in this setup that I swear it feels better just from the greasing too - as compared to last week when it was dry in the bushings.:D

[Wojtek]

it's all good Les.

Wojtek.

[peterca]

Just noticed this handy item on another site.

Use teflon tape instead of grease. People who have used it seem to think it is a set and forget situation and avoids the need to regrease

The other option used was graphite grease - don't know about that though.


pc

[Peter]

G'day All,

Thank you for a great thread throughout the past year. A lot has been discussed and achieved.

We wish you all a great New Year.

Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

PS: The teflon tape idea may have merit :) but how would we package a 200mm length :)

[petercaxt]

Just a warning after my standard rear swaybar mount broke. The rear bolt on the right rear mount also holds a plastic bracket in place.

This must reduce greatly the ability of that bolt to retain the mount in place and so after some 21000km its a temporary welding job until I get some HD mounts. Even then the plastic bracket will have to be held up by some other means.

The lack of grip by the rear bolt has allowed the bracket to move around wearing the hole wider. The bracket was cracked at that bolt hole and the bracket actually broke behind the front bolt.

The left rear mount is as good as gold.

Now the car has only ever been on bituman (well except for the road between Camooweal and Mt Isa) and has been looked after, so I can only recommend that you check out the bolt etc. and perhaps take out the plastic bracket.

[outasight]

Well it's been a while guys....and....
The left link mount on the rear control arm has broken away above the hole & "strengthen fold"(bloody weak design of course).
Here is the right oem one....
http://img241.echo.cx/my.php?image=dscf0080medium3tl.jpg
...and here is the left after my repair/re-engineer!...
http://img241.echo.cx/my.php?image=dscf0081medium0dv.jpg

ALL my bushes were dry & noisey again - am now trying "Never Seez" brand grease on fronts & Marine Grease on backs + castors. Bloody washers keep turning and knocking on bodywork too!

My oem rear mount extensions seem to be holding up well - but might "re-engineer" them too while I do the right arm....

Les. :D

[Wojtek]

Hi,
We are aware of the issue with the sway bar link mounting bracket on the control arm, so may add these to the to-do list.

I think you've got a reasonable trouble free run with your bushes. Remember, the bush must be just firm in place, not squashed in the brackets.

Regards,
Wojtek.

[outasight]

Hi Wojtek,
What is it that I have heard Whiteline changed or improved in the design of these swaybars in the last 12 months?
All I know is someone somewhere said they were changed.
One thing I do know is my front bar has rubber rings to stop side play, whereas my rear does not - is there a kit to fix that?

Les.

[Wojtek]

Les,
... I don't know what you have heard....:confused:
The clamps are not necessary for the rear sway bar. However, we will have these available soon for anyone that wants to add them to their sway bars as an option.

Regards,
Wojtek.

[xt _ian]

Ok feedback time the swaybars of bought have not heard a peep from them thinking of buying control arms and links any part numbers looking also at a stiffining brace do you make one for the forester xt?

[Wojtek]

Hi Ian,
I don't think we do rear adjustable control arms or lower braces for your car. Did you check our catalogue?

Regards,
Wojtek.

[xt _ian]

mmmmm seen them on the mrt car adjustable contol arms maybe check the cattledog

[Brick]

Man oh man the BSR35Z rear and BSF33Z front sway bars are brilliant!. Cannot believe the improvement in my '05 XT. Corners like on rails. The only thing slowing me down is the side wall flex in my tyres. Hmmm 18" rims and low profiles I think next......

One question though. With the BSF33Z front bar. Which hole is the stiffer setting?


Thxs

Tim

[Peter]

G'day Brick,
Think of it like the handle of a wheel barrow - the longer the handle the easier the lift. So the the longer the lever on the swaybar the less effort that is required to bend it - ie the soft setting. The inner hole is the stiffer setting. I trust this is as clear as mud :)

Cheers
Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au
PS: I suggest that you start with the soft setting - the outer holes.

[Graham]

Outasight
Since my post Peter has contacted me via Whiteline and I will order BSR35Z bar.By the way,I'm surprised you are still using the Geos.My dealer sold me a second set of rims for $150 and I put on Bridgestone G3s.MUCH better,cost about $155-165 each.I keep the others for my soft roading but only because I can't get any legal better ones such as Bridgestone 693s.The Geos are a mistake as far as I am concerned and are just plain stupid on an XT.By the way,if you want to improve you lighting,fit IPF Super Low Beam X(or XX) globes.They are made for Polycarbonate lenses and are only 60/80watts.Don't use the high K ones if you are doing country driving,use the 3200k clear ones.I think X41 is the part number.Some off road shops have them,about $155,but I got mine from Japan for about $55.They are high pressure Xeon and put out 130-170w.Check out the Jap website.Be kind to others.Make sure you lights are adjusted properly and watch it with a load in the back.Graham.

[xt _ian]

Hi heard steering rack bushes help our xt does anyone know the part number?

[aj-black]

Originally posted by xt _ian
Hi heard steering rack bushes help our xt does anyone know the part number?

Check out this Whiteline PDF:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/fact_sheets/CK_Forester_SG_XT.pdf

It looks like the Heavy Duty Steering Rack Mounts are KSR200 (25 mm) or KSR202 (30 mm). Might pay to double check with Whiteline ...

According to their 2c Catalogue, you need to "Measure OE passanger side bush retaining bracket. 25mm wide use KSR200. 30mm wide use KSR202."

[Peter]

G'day AJ :)

Just confirming that your info was correct ;)

A link to info on the steering rack bush kit can be found here:

http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/099_sr202.pdf

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas and a Great New Year.

Cheers
Peter
peter@whiteline.com.au

[petercaxt]

Well Whiteline and Outasight - the inevitable has happened; on my MY04 Forester XT, the welding on the bracket for the link on the rear control arm on the right hand side went after only 37000 odd km and I have only ever driven on sealed roads. I have a non adjustable 22mm rear swaybar installed with HD mounts and because I had to drive over 700km before being able to get the welding done, I now have to replace the link as well as the lower joint seal on the link has split because of it flapping and banging around in the breeze.

I reckon it would be a real good idea for Whiteline to offer the option for a full package with a replacement control arm and heavy duty link as well the mounts and swaybar.

If these options are not available, then I would suggest to anyone that only the softest option be used if at all.

Luckily I was able to print off the photo supplied by Outasight to the local mechanic to give him the idea of what to do. Now both sides have the whole of the bracket welded, with an additional bit of angle iron on the inside of the bracket along the control arm.

All I need now is for a HD set of links........

I am willing to be a guinea pig Whiteline

pc

[Wojtek]

Hi petecaxt,
That's bad news about your broken control arm link bracket. Unfortunately, we don't offer new heavy duty adjustable control arms for the Forester, but the good news is that we have just started on the preliminary design.
As for your offer of a test car, thanks, but as soon as we have a prototype to test will we need access to a local (Sydney) car.

Regards,
Wojtek.

[petercaxt]

Just a warning to those who have HD sway bar for the front of their Forester XTs.

I have a 22mm adjustable sway bar on the front and after about 95000km the front right mount fractured off the lower suspension arm.

The car is not driven off road and rarely on dirt roads, so keep an eye on it

pc

[Wojtek]

Hi Peter,
That's a first!
This is a FRONT lower control arm?
Steel or alloy?
What endlinks were you using?

Would you be able to take some photos and email them direct to us?
support@whiteline.com.au

Thanks,
Wojtek.

[idea08]

Hi! newbie to the forum here. Read through this whole thread and it's very informative! I have a few questions though... I have an '07 XT partial VIN: JF1 SG9 LT57G ******
which is a 2.5L Turbo; AT with sport shift.
1) I was wondering if the info in the posts apply to my car..
2) Given that an adjustable rear swaybar is recommended for the budget-conscious to be paired with the OEM front swaybar, what does that say about the body roll? Does that mean you should go for the 22mm front swaybar if you want less body roll compared to the OEM?

Thanks!

[idea08]

To contribute some feedback to the thread, I've installed the KSR202 steering rack bushings and they DO help the steering feel. But the bigger change can be felt when you let go of the Yoko Geolandars like I did and trade up for a better matched tire. I got Bridgestone Adrenalins and they are Precise and very grippy! I heard from one of Russ swift's local team that they had initially installed Adrenalins for a stunt but had to change them up to michelin pilots (forgot which model) because the hotter the bridgestones got, the more they gripped the concrete and that made it harder to execute the precision driving stunts consistently ;-)

[Whiteline]

G'day Newbie and thanks for posting,

Sorry for the delay but this one has slipped through the cracks. Do you still ned some help? Did you happen to look on Whiteline's web site at www.whiteline.com.au and their online catalogue?

That shows pretty much what fits each vehicle and if its catalogued.

Cheers

Whiteline Jim
Whiteline Flatout
www.whiteine.com.au

[idea08]

thanks for replying jim, was beginning to think this thread has become inactive. Yes, I actually landed on this forum through whiteline's website. I've also browsed through the catalogue (which by the way ver.401 seems to have a problem. Ive downloaded it on several computers and all report errors when open it on adobe reader. ver.361 works fine).

I just wanted advice on whether to go for both swaybars or just the rear ones if I just use my car for occational spirited driving on the road and not the track and if I need to change my endlinks too.

I'm looking for improved and balanced handling while keeping the stock ride height and minimizing impact on ride quality.

My previous car was an EVO7, which i had to change up when my daughter was born, so the stock body roll and steering ratio/feel of the forester is pretty unnerving. I've done what I can for the latter (short of swapping the steering rack because I've having a hard time finding the part) and now I'm working on the former.